The Big Lie

The big lie for today is the endless reporting that President Trump said “the media is the enemy of the American people”.

I’ve heard news reporters on every station claiming he said it, and asking people about it, and discussing that statement. Oh, a few of the media folks haven’t done that, but by and large reporters and journalists are clutching their pearls and whining endlessly about how the President is attacking the First Amendment and opposed to free reporting and the like. PBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, every media outlet has some talking head whining about how wrong, wrong, wrong the President was to say that the media is the enemy of the people … which would be fine, except for one little detail …

HE NEVER SAID THAT. Nor did he attack the First Amendment.

What he said is that the FAKE NEWS media is the enemy of the American people. 

And that is an entirely different statement, with a totally different meaning. Not only that, but it was not a general attack on the media as almost everyone is claiming. He spelled out in detail exactly who he was talking about. As you know, I like original documents, and here is the document at the head of all of these lies about what he said:

trump-enemy-of-the-people-tweet

Look at how what he actually said has been twisted to attack him. He called out five specific “news” organizations for their highly politicized “reporting” of the actual news … and in response the media has gone into a meltdown, hysterically lying about what he said, clutching their pearls and claiming they are under attack, and repeating the idea that he’s opposed to a free press and is against the media and the like … dang, get a grip, guys!

In a curiously recursive twist, this false and incorrect reporting of his actual statement by the majority of the news media shows that the President was right … the majority of the media are convicted by their own actions of the President’s charge against them.

Fake news, like this fake news about what the President never said, hurts the dialogue on all sides. It prevents a discussion of the real issues, and it inflames the passions by distorting what people actually said.

So the President is right. FAKE NEWS media are indeed the enemy of the people.

… meanwhile, the TV is on in the background as I write this. Fox News is quacking away for the moment, I rotate the dial through all the channels every day so I can hear all sides of the issues. The idiotic Fox talking head just said to his guest, and I quote, “He’s calling journalists the enemies of the American people, what do you think of that” …

I’ll tell you what I think of that, Mr. Fox News Commentator.

I think you just proved the President’s point. You are using fake news, something the President NEVER SAID, to attack the President. He didn’t say “journalists are the enemies of the people”, that is FAKE NEWS. Made up. Imaginary. A non-quote. That is a total misrepresentation of what the President said. It twists his statement to the opposite of its true meaning, and that is dishonest.

And when anyone uses and spreads fake news, when they twist the truth like that, they are indeed an enemy of the American people.

As the President knows, as you and I know, as everyone agrees, a fair, balanced and honest press, free to speak truth to power, is crucial and indispensable to liberty and democracy. We used to have one, and in some places we still do. We need to protect and support all such reporting and reporters. Honest unbiased journalists in 2017 are rarae aves that should be added to the Endangered Species List. Where is Walter Cronkite when we need him?

On the other hand, a biased, lying, and politically driven “news” organization is just a public relations operation for the political party it represents. When a bunch of political operatives with bylines masquerade as a news station, as say CNN does in between cravenly slipping the secret debate questions to Hillary and putting CNN’s full weight behind almost any Democrat’s campaign, that “news” station is one of the fake news media … and that is assuredly a danger to all of us.

w.

The Usual Request: When you comment, please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS you are discussing, so we can all be clear about your subject.

 

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45 thoughts on “The Big Lie

  1. Of course, you cannot expect that he Fake News industry will acknowledge they arre faking news. It would as impossible as to get a liberal politician to acknowledge his electoral promises are just an auction for an expected booty.

    Like

  2. Pingback: The Big Lie | Skating Under The Ice | Cranky Old Crow

  3. It’s both funny and telling how the MSM were (subconsciously, I’m sure) unable to process the word “fake” in Trump’s quote – and just took it for granted that they knew he meant all MSM news organizations are purveyors of fake news!

    lol.

    Projecting much, CNN?

    “The wicked flee when no man pursueth, but the righteous are bold as a lion.” – biblical proverb.

    Liked by 1 person

    • “MSM were (subconsciously, I’m sure) unable to process the word “fake”
      I would think that the real problem is the potential loss of dictatorial corporate hold on politicians which Trump has said he will take on and which includes the 6 corporations that own 90% of the media (and that in 2012). So I seriously doubt that this is in anyway “subconscious”. I rarely read any of the mainstream online pubs like WaPo, HuffPo, Time NYT etc. because of what I know will be major distortions. But sometimes I will peruse a political article in one of those just for the practice of picking out the slants and misleads.
      http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

      Like

  4. I just heard an interview with G.W. Bush and he thinks Trump called the media enemies of the people. I am left wondering if he didn’t listen or if he has joined other “mainline” republicans in trying to bring Trump down. He sure never said anything about Obama’s poorly supported statements.

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    • Dubya never was a bright bulb. Forgive him that. I experienced this first hand at HBS overlapping him. He is now painting portraits, and those are not so great either. (But I know next to nothing about portrait painting, except to look at the result.)

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  5. I’m sure it would stick in the throats of these whailers and whiners to actually quote his words no additions or deletions.

    James Bull

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  6. Wonder how many of “We, the people” are believing the Fake News that the media is spreading?

    Every major media service reporting the Fake News on this should be barred from Presidential Press Conferences. If they ask why, they should be reminded about this total misrepresentation of what the President said which “by their own tongue” branded them “Fake Media”.

    The White House Press Secretary should also have a “No Fake Media” sign posted outside of the Conference Room.

    Remember, the media isn’t writing their opinion in their appropriate Opinion/Editorial section, which would be perfectly fine, they are headlining this as real news.

    Yes, Fake News is the enemy of the American People, and if you consider yourself part of “we, the people” you should be both upset and offended. This isn’t about Conservative or Liberal, Democrat or Republican, Left or Right, this is about us deliberately being fed false information in an effort to deceive us.

    Like

    • “Every major media service reporting the Fake News on this should be barred from Presidential Press Conferences.”
      That has been done and the fake news claim is that it was, according to media standards, a violation of the First Amendment, which of course libtards immediately buy into.

      Like

  7. The BBC here in UK pushes a new nightly program – “100 days” (of Trumps Presidency). It is presented by the two new unknowns and comprises one sided opinion from ex members of CNN and Washington Post mainly. These people smirk a lot!

    It is difficult to tolerate with much mutual ar*e licking of which is common to the BBC. We learn nothing that is of fact. Some of it here:

    Like

    • just a note that Fox has a program with the same name. it seems reasonably balances (but looking to sensationalize whatever happened that day, which makes for ‘interesting’ episodes on slow news days 🙂

      Their ‘town hall’ days I just skip.

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  8. Ahh yes that would be Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace, both of whom should be working for CNN or MSNBC. I suppose the only reason Fox keeps them is either to provide a kind of distorted balance or because Murdoch’s sons, who are both liberals, insist. Much like the other channels, we tune those two out. If Fox rolls over when the sons take over completely, there won’t be much opposition to the other channels. Maybe Fox’s presently zooming ratings will help.
    I never miss Gutfeld’s news comedy routine though.

    Like

  9. The Big Lie
    https://rosebyanyothernameblog.wordpress.com/2017/02/27/the-big-lie/

    “I’ll tell you what I think of that, Mr. Fox News Commentator.
    I think you just proved the President’s point. You are using fake news, something the President NEVER SAID, to attack the President. He didn’t say “journalists are the enemies of the people”, that is FAKE NEWS. Made up. Imaginary. A non-quote. That is a total misrepresentation of what the President said. It twists his statement to the opposite of its true meaning, and that is dishonest.”

    Willis, I want to start with thanking you for writing out your thoughts and putting them out for discussion. I have enjoyed reading your writings over the years, gems, warts, and all.

    I understand your point, and if the President’s communication to the public were limited to the tweet you referenced, I would be at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and agree with you. Sadly, the tweet you mention is far from the all the President has had to say on the matter.

    Below are the combined Twitter search results for “fake Media OR news from:realDonaldTrump” and “Leak OR leaks from:realDonaldTrump” (27Feb17)

    Feb 26
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems, and played up by the media, in order to mask the big election defeat and the illegal leaks!

    Feb 24
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    FAKE NEWS media knowingly doesn’t tell the truth. A great danger to our country. The failing ‪@nytimes‬ has become a joke. Likewise ‪@CNN‬. Sad!

    Feb 20
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Give the public a break – The FAKE NEWS media is trying to say that large scale immigration in Sweden is working out just beautifully. NOT!

    Feb 18
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Don’t believe the main stream (fake news) media.The White House is running VERY WELL. I inherited a MESS and am in the process of fixing it.

    Feb 17
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    “One of the most effective press conferences I’ve ever seen!” says Rush Limbaugh. Many agree.Yet FAKE MEDIA calls it differently! Dishonest

    Feb 17
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The FAKE NEWS media (failing ‪@nytimes‬, ‪@NBCNews‬, ‪@ABC‬, ‪@CBS‬, ‪@CNN‬) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!

    Feb 17
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Thank you for all of the nice statements on the Press Conference yesterday. Rush Limbaugh said one of greatest ever. Fake media not happy!

    Feb 16
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The Democrats had to come up with a story as to why they lost the election, and so badly (306), so they made up a story – RUSSIA. Fake news!

    Feb 16
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    FAKE NEWS media, which makes up stories and “sources,” is far more effective than the discredited Democrats – but they are fading fast!

    Feb 15
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. ‪@MSNBC‬ & ‪@CNN‬ are unwatchable. ‪@foxandfriends‬ is great!

    Feb 14
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington? Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc?

    Feb 10
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The failing ‪@nytimes‬ does major FAKE NEWS China story saying “Mr.Xi has not spoken to Mr. Trump since Nov.14.” We spoke at length yesterday!

    Feb 9
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Chris Cuomo, in his interview with Sen. Blumenthal, never asked him about his long-term lie about his brave “service” in Vietnam. FAKE NEWS!

    Feb 8
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    ’16 Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won’
    16 Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won
    thefederalist.com

    Feb 6
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it. Some FAKE NEWS media, in order to marginalize, lies!

    Feb 6
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.

    Feb 4
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    After being forced to apologize for its bad and inaccurate coverage of me after winning the election, the FAKE NEWS ‪@nytimes‬ is still lost!

    Feb 3
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Thank you to Prime Minister of Australia for telling the truth about our very civil conversation that FAKE NEWS media lied about. Very nice!

    Jan 29
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Somebody with aptitude and conviction should buy the FAKE NEWS and failing ‪@nytimes‬ and either run it correctly or let it fold with dignity!

    Jan 28
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The failing ‪@nytimes‬ has been wrong about me from the very beginning. Said I would lose the primaries, then the general election. FAKE NEWS!

    Jan 24
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Congratulations to ‪@FoxNews‬ for being number one in inauguration ratings. They were many times higher than FAKE NEWS ‪@CNN‬ – public is smart!

    Jan 18
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    to the U.S., but had nothing to do with TRUMP, is more FAKE NEWS. Ask top CEO’s of those companies for real facts. Came back because of me!

    Jan 15
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    much worse – just look at Syria (red line), Crimea, Ukraine and the build-up of Russian nukes. Not good! Was this the leaker of Fake News?

    Jan 13
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Totally made up facts by sleazebag political operatives, both Democrats and Republicans – FAKE NEWS! Russia says nothing exists. Probably…

    Jan 12
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    .‪@CNN‬ is in a total meltdown with their FAKE NEWS because their ratings are tanking since election and their credibility will soon be gone!

    Jan 11
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    We had a great News Conference at Trump Tower today. A couple of FAKE NEWS organizations were there but the people truly get what’s going on

    Jan 11
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to “leak” into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?

    Jan 11
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    I win an election easily, a great “movement” is verified, and crooked opponents try to belittle our victory with FAKE NEWS. A sorry state!

    Jan 10
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    FAKE NEWS – A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT

    Jan 8
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Dishonest media says Mexico won’t be paying for the wall if they pay a little later so the wall can be built more quickly. Media is fake!

    Dec 10
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Reports by ‪@CNN‬ that I will be working on The Apprentice during my Presidency, even part time, are ridiculous & untrue – FAKE NEWS!

    Nov 27, 2015
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    “‪@MarkSimoneNY‬: Great twitter quote about Donald Trump: “Never apologize for fake controversies whipped up by the perpetually offended media

    Nov 26, 2015
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    “‪@PrisonPlanet‬: .‪@realDonaldTrump‬ gets it. Never apologize for fake controversies whipped up by the perpetually offended media.”

    Dec 2, 2014
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    It’s Tuesday. How many more ‘The View’ Execs will leak that they want ‪@rosie‬ gone? Show is failing.

    Feb 12, 2013
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Another must read from Jeffrey Lord ‪@amspec‬: “Rove Email Leaks: Ideological War Opens in GOP” (link: http://bit.ly/YTZQIO) bit.ly/YTZQIO

    Oct 16, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Between Libya, the national security leaks and Fast & Furious, Obama has had more national security scandals than any other President.

    Sep 11, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Whatever happened to Obama’s ‘independent investigation’ into national security leaks from his administration? Where’s the media?

    Aug 16, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Military reps have attacked ‪@BarackObama‬ over Bin Laden leaks–they believe he’s just using this for his benefit. Not a big surprise…

    Jul 27, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    All the national security leaks coming from ‪@BarackObama‬’s ‪@whitehouse‬ were clearly made for political gain. Where’s the outrage!?

    Jul 27, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Just as I predicted, ‪@BarackObama‬ has not allowed an independent investigation into the national security leaks from his cabinet.

    Jun 20, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    Yesterday there was yet another massive intelligence leak by the ‪@BarackObama‬ administration. (link: http://wapo.st/M4FEQY) wapo.st/M4FEQY

    Jun 11, 2012
    Donald J. Trump‏ ‪@realDonaldTrump‬
    The Justice Department’s investigation into the national security leaks is not independent. This is a very grave situation.

    —–

    Additionally, the President said this at his 17Feb17 Melbourne, FL Rally:

    “I also want to speak to you without the filter of the fake news. The dishonest media which has published one false story after another with no sources, even though they pretend they have them, they make them up in many cases, they just don’t want to report the truth and they’ve been calling us wrong now for two years. They don’t get it. By they’re starting to get it. I can tell you that. They’ve become a big part of the problem. They are part of the corrupt system. Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and Abraham Lincoln and many of our greatest presidents fought with the media and called them out often times on their lies. When the media lies to people, I will never, ever let them get away with it. I will do whatever I can that. They don’t get away with it.

    They have their own agenda and their agenda is not your agenda. In fact, Thomas Jefferson said, “nothing can be believed which is seen in a newspaper.” “Truth itself,” he said, “becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle,” that was June 14, my birthday, 1807. But despite all their lies, misrepresentations, and false stories, they could not defeat us in the primaries, and they could not defeat us in the general election, and we will continue to expose them for what they are, and most importantly, we will continue to win, win, win.

    We are not going to let the fake news tell us what to do, how to live, or what to believe. We are free and independent people and we will make our own choices.
    We are here today to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.”
    [http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/national/read-full-transcript-trump-rally-speech-florida/DeDCpoNEKLQmWcIKndWB0M/]

    Then, on 24Feb17 at CPAC the President stated:

    And I want you all to know that we are fighting the fake news. It’s fake, phony, fake.
    (APPLAUSE)
    A few days ago I called the fake news the enemy of the people. And they are. They are the enemy of the people.
    (APPLAUSE)
    Because they have no sources, they just make ’em up when there are none. I saw one story recently where they said, “Nine people have confirmed.” There’re no nine people. I don’t believe there was one or two people. Nine people.
    And I said, “Give me a break.” Because I know the people, I know who they talk to. There were no nine people.
    But they say “nine people.” And somebody reads it and they think, “Oh, nine people. They have nine sources.” They make up sources.
    They’re very dishonest people. In fact, in covering my comments, the dishonest media did not explain that I called the fake news the enemy of the people. The fake news. They dropped off the word “fake.” And all of a sudden the story became the media is the enemy.
    They take the word “fake” out. And now I’m saying, “Oh no, this is no good.” But that’s the way they are.
    So I’m not against the media, I’m not against the press. I don’t mind bad stories if I deserve them.
    And I tell ya, I love good stories, but we don’t go…
    (LAUGHTER)
    I don’t get too many of them.
    But I am only against the fake news, media or press. Fake, fake. They have to leave that word.
    I’m against the people that make up stories and make up sources.
    They shouldn’t be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody’s name. Let their name be put out there. Let their name be put out.
    (APPLAUSE)
    “A source says that Donald Trump is a horrible, horrible human being.” Let ’em say it to my face.
    (APPLAUSE)
    Let there be no more sources.
    And remember this — and in not — in all cases. I mean, I had a story written yesterday about me in Reuters by a very honorable man. It was a very fair story.
    There are some great reporters around. They’re talented, they’re honest as the day is long. They’re great.
    But there are some terrible dishonest people and they do a tremendous disservice to our country and to our people. A tremendous disservice. They are very dishonest people.
    And they shouldn’t use sources. They should put the name of the person. You will see stories dry up like you’ve never seen before.
    So you have no idea how bad it is, because if you are not part of the story — and I put myself in your position sometimes. Because many of you, you’re not part of the story. And if you’re not part of the story, you know, then you, sort of, know — if you are part of the story, you know what they’re saying is true or not.
    TRUMP: So when they make it up — and they make up something else, and you saw that before the election: polls, polls. The polls. They come out with these polls and everybody was so surprised.
    Actually, a couple polls got it right. I must say Los Angeles Times did a great job, shocking because, you know, they did a great job.
    (APPLAUSE)
    And we had a couple of others that were right, but generally speaking, I mean, can tell you the network, somebody said a poll came out. And I say, what network is it? And they’ll say, a certain — let’s not even mention names, right? Shall we?
    (APPLAUSE)
    Well, you have a lot of them. Look, the Clinton News Network is one.
    (APPLAUSE)
    Totally. Take a look. Honestly. Take a look, honestly. Take a look at polls over the last two years. Now you’d think they would fire the pollster, right? After years and years of getting battered, but I — who knows, maybe they are just bad at polling or maybe they’re not legit, but it’s one or the other, look at how inaccurate — look at CBS, look at ABC, also, look at NBC, take a look at some of these polls. They’re so bad, so inaccurate and what that does is it creates a false narrative.
    It creates like this narrative that is just like we’re not going to win, people say, I love Trump, but you know, I’m not feeling great today, he can’t win, so I won’t go and vote. I won’t go and vote. It creates a whole false deal. And we have to fight it, folks, we have to fight it. They’re very smart, they’re very cunning and they’re very dishonest.
    So just to conclude, I mean, it’s a very sensitive topic and they get upset when we expose their false stories. They say that we can’t criticize their dishonest coverage because of the First Amendment, you know, they always bring up the First Amendment.
    (LAUGHTER)
    And I love the First Amendment; nobody loves it better than me. Nobody.
    (APPLAUSE)
    I mean, who use its more than I do? But the First Amendment gives all of us — it gives it to me, it gives it to you, it gives it to all Americans, the right to speak our minds freely. It gives you the right and me the right to criticize fake news and criticize it strongly.
    (APPLAUSE)
    And many of these groups are part the large media corporations that have their own agenda and it’s not your agenda and it’s not the country’s agenda, it’s their own agenda. They have a professional obligation as members of the press to report honestly. But as you saw throughout the entire campaign, and even now, the fake news doesn’t tell the truth. Doesn’t tell the truth.
    So just in finishing, I say it doesn’t represent the people, it doesn’t tell the never will represent the people, and we’re going to do something about it because we have to go out and have to speak our minds and we have to be honest. Our victory was a win like nobody has ever seen before.
    [http://time.com/4682023/cpac-donald-trump-speech-transcript/]

    And most recently with Breitbart (27Feb17):

    BREITBART NEWS NETWORK (BNN): “The big thing I kind of wanted to zone in on right off the bat is ‘the opposition party,’ the media—“
    PRESIDENT TRUMP (POTUS): “Well, it’s not the media. It’s the fake media.”
    BNN: “That’s what I was going to—“
    POTUS: “There’s a difference. The fake media is the opposition party. The fake media is the enemy of the American people. There’s tremendous fake media out there. Tremendous fake stories. The problem is the people that aren’t involved in the story don’t know that.”
    HOPE HICKS: “Just the fact that they didn’t report that accurately proves your point.”
    POTUS: “Which accurately?”
    HICKS: “They said ‘Oh Donald Trump said the press is the enemy of the American people.’”
    POTUS: “Right. They take ‘fake’ media off. They say ‘the media is the enemy of—well, they didn’t say the ‘fake media.’ I didn’t say the media is the enemy—I said the ‘fake media.’ They take the word fake out and all of a sudden it’s like I’m against—there are some great reporters like you. I know some great honorable reporters who do a great job like Steve [Holland] from Reuters, others, many others. I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about the fake media, where they make up everything there is to make up.”
    BNN: “Right and that’s what I wanted to zone in on with you because I know you made that very clear in your CPAC speech. Can you kind of more clearly define what standards and quality we should expect from those who are doing reporting?”
    POTUS: “It’s intent. It’s also intent. If you read the New York Times, if you read the New York Times, it’s—the intent is so evil and so bad. The stories are wrong in many cases, but it’s the overall intent. Look at that paper over the last two years. In fact, they had to write a letter of essentially apology to their subscribers because they got the election so wrong. They did a front page article on women talking about me, and the women went absolutely wild because they said that was not what they said. It was a big front-page article, and the Times wouldn’t even apologize and yet they were wrong. You probably saw the women. They went on television shows and everything.”
    BNN: “Yes, it was pretty embarrassing for the Times.”
    POTUS: “[They said] ‘we really like Donald Trump and he [the Times reporter] totally misrepresented us. He said he was going to say good and it was absolutely bad.’ This was a front page article, almost the entire top half of the New York Times, and it was false. It was false. Did they apologize? No. I call them the failing New York Times and they write lies. They write lies. Nobody would know that. For instance, when people read the story on the women—first of all, the reporter who wrote the story has a website full of hatred of Donald Trump. So, he shouldn’t be allowed to be a reporter because he’s not objective. It’s not all, but it has many negative things about Donald Trump. But he shouldn’t be allowed to write on Donald Trump. And, he writes that story. But that’s one of many. So, when you read the Sunday New York Times, it’s just hit after hit after hit. And honestly, I think people are wise to it because if you look at the approval rating, you see it’s down. You know, it’s gone. There’s very little approval.”
    BNN: “Now, during the campaign, one of the things you and a lot of your campaign guys like Peter Navarro talked about was breaking up some of these oligopolies in the media. If you look at the media, part of the problem seems to be that a vast majority of the media companies are owned by just a handful of different companies. Obviously, there’s a looming merger between AT&T and Time Warner. I wanted to see what your thoughts are on that and if CNN’s pretty bad behavior over the course of—they really don’t seem to be making an effort to get it right—does that give you hesitation in terms of approval of the deal?”
    POTUS: “I don’t want to comment on any specific deal, but I do believe there has to be competition in the marketplace and maybe even more so with the media because it would be awfully bad after years if we ended up having one voice out there. You have to have competition in the marketplace and you have to have competition among the media. And I’m not commenting on any one deal, but you need competition generally and you certainly need it with media.”
    [http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/27/exclusive-president-trump-new-york-times-intent-is-so-evil-and-so-bad-they-write-lies/]

    These recent statements can be seen as a warm up toward the President keeping the campaign promise he made to open up libel laws against “the media” while speaking in Fort Worth Texas 26Feb16:

    “I’ll tell you what, I think the media is among the most dishonest groups of people I’ve ever met. They’re terrible. “The New York Times,” which is losing a fortune, which is a failing newspaper, which probably won’t be around that much longer, but probably somebody will buy it as a trophy, keep it going for a little longer, but I think “The New York Times” is one of the most dishonest media outlets I’ve ever seen in my life. The worst. The worst. The absolute worst. They have an agenda that you wouldn’t believe. And they’re run by incompetent people. They are totally incompetently run.

    “Washington Post,” I have to tell you, I have respect for Jeff Bezos, but he bought “The Washington Post” to have political influence. And I got to tell you, we have a different country then we used to have. We have a different – he owns Amazon. He wants political influence so that Amazon will benefit from it. That’s not right. And, believe me, if I become president, oh, do they have problems. They’re going to have such problems.

    And one of the things I’m going to do – and this is only going to make it tougher for me, and I’ve never said this before – but one of the things I’m going to do if I win, and I hope I do, and we’re certainly leading, is I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. We’re going to open up those libel laws.

    So that when “The New York Times” writes a hit piece, which is a total disgrace, or when “The Washington Post,” which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win money instead of having no chance of winning because they’re totally protected. You see, with me, they’re not protected because I’m not like other people, but I’m not taking money. I’m not taking their money. So we’re going to open up those libel laws, folks, and we’re going to have people sue you like you never got sued before.”
    [http://us.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1602/26/cnr.05.html]

    It is plain to see that President Trump takes issue with the media, particularly the “dishonest” media or “FAKE NEWS”, and make a distinction between the two. What then distinguishes the fake from the real, the honest from the dishonest, in the President’s mind. Let us look at some quotes:

    — “The fake media is the opposition party. The fake media is the enemy of the American people.”

    — “It’s also intent. If you read the New York Times, if you read the New York Times, it’s – the intent is so evil and so bad. The stories are wrong in many cases, but it’s the overall intent.”

    — “the reporter who wrote the story has a website full of hatred of Donald Trump. So, he shouldn’t be allowed to be a reporter because he’s not objective.”

    — “you read the Sunday New York Times, it’s just hit after hit after hit.”

    — “I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them”

    — “the large media corporations that have their own agenda and it’s not your agenda and it’s not the country’s agenda, it’s their own agenda.”

    — “They’re very smart, they’re very cunning and they’re very dishonest.”

    — “They are very dishonest people. And they shouldn’t use sources. They should put the name of the person. You will see stories dry up like you’ve never seen before.”

    — “They shouldn’t be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody’s name. Let their name be put out there. Let their name be put out. “A source says that Donald Trump is a horrible, horrible human being.” Let ’em say it to my face.”

    — “So I’m not against the media, I’m not against the press. I don’t mind bad stories if I deserve them.”

    — “[The fake news] have no sources, they just make ’em up when there are none. I saw one story recently where they said, “Nine people have confirmed.” There’re no nine people.”

    — “They have their own agenda and their agenda is not your agenda.”

    — “They’ve become a big part of the problem. They are part of the corrupt system.”

    — “The dishonest media which has published one false story after another with no sources, even though they pretend they have them, they make them up in many cases, they just don’t want to report the truth and they’ve been calling us wrong now for two years.”

    — “FAKE NEWS – A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT”

    — “I win an election easily, a great “movement” is verified, and crooked opponents try to belittle our victory with FAKE NEWS. A sorry state!”

    — “Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to “leak” into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?”

    — “Totally biased @NBCNews went out of its way to say that the big announcement from Ford, G.M., Lockheed & others that jobs are coming back… to the U.S., but had nothing to do with TRUMP, is more FAKE NEWS. Ask top CEO’s of those companies for real facts. Came back because of me!”

    — “The failing ‪@nytimes‬ has been wrong about me from the very beginning. Said I would lose the primaries, then the general election. FAKE NEWS!”

    — “Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.”

    — “The failing ‪@nytimes‬ does major FAKE NEWS China story saying “Mr.Xi has not spoken to Mr. Trump since Nov.14.” We spoke at length yesterday!” [Note: 10Feb17 08:35 tweet; also: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/world/asia/donald-trump-china-xi-jinping-letter.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 and http://www.nytimes.com/images/2017/02/10/nytfrontpage/scan.pdf%5D

    — “FAKE NEWS media, which makes up stories and “sources,” is far more effective than the discredited Democrats – but they are fading fast!”

    — “The Democrats had to come up with a story as to why they lost the election, and so badly (306), so they made up a story – RUSSIA. Fake news!”

    — “Don’t believe the main stream (fake news) media.The White House is running VERY WELL. I inherited a MESS and am in the process of fixing it.”

    — “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems, and played up by the media, in order to mask the big election defeat and the illegal leaks!”

    — “The FAKE NEWS media (failing ‪@nytimes‬, ‪@NBCNews‬, ‪@ABC‬, ‪@CBS‬, ‪@CNN‬) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”

    So, simplifying, the FAKE NEWS…
    Are the opposition party
    Are the enemy of the people
    Have evil intent
    Full of hate
    Produce hit after hit after hit
    Purposefully write negative, horrible, false articles
    They have their own agenda
    Their agenda is not your agenda
    Are smart, cunning, dishonest
    Very dishonest people
    Use anonymous sources
    I don’t deserve what they say
    Make up sources
    Are big part of the problem
    Part of the corrupt system
    Don’t want to report the truth
    Have been calling us wrong for two years
    Political witch hunt
    Crooked opponents
    Belittle our victory
    Tried to diminish my accomplishments
    Repeatedly didn’t predict I would succeed
    Invented Russia story
    Mainstream
    Democrat tools
    Masking Democrats big loss
    Masking Illegal leaks

    Additional background:
    A look at Trump and his 2014 Buzzfeed Bio: http://gothamist.com/2014/02/15/lol_wtf_what_we_learned_about_donal.php [attacking a reporter who did not write a profile piece to Trump’s liking]

    Handwritten critical notes to reporters: http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-handwritten-note-reporter-2014-4

    Trump sues NYT reporter and publisher over report of his net worth in a book on him:

    From all this I think it is fair to say that from all the President has stated that he truly is distinguishing between Good and Bad media, though I infer he does so with definitions that diverge from typical expectations. From the material here, I interpret the President as seeing Good Media being those that consistently praise the President, recount his accomplishments, are on his side, are ideologically like minded, strengthen his valuation of himself, and helps him accomplish his goals (including covering for him). Bad Media for a variety of reasons do not consistently do all these things, an as such are the subject of abuse, and recently now retribution. What struck me as interesting is that while claims of a lack of truthfulness (factual accuracy) came up a fair amount, such seemed to be less a core criticism and more a weapon for not keeping to the attributes I listed under Good Media. Factual accuracy seemed less important to the President than intent. As such, even if adopting the President’s definitions, it is not accurate to say that the FAKE NEWS is the enemy of the people as the President stated initially on February 17: “The FAKE NEWS media (failing ‪@nytimes‬, ‪@NBCNews‬, ‪@ABC‬, ‪@CBS‬, ‪@CNN‬) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”. Instead the “FAKE NEWS media” is the perceived enemy of the President. This is interesting as the President proactively went out of his way to say that this was not so.

    Additionally, outside of the President’s definitions and working in common parlance where “the media” refers primarily to the Mainstream Media, it is accurate to say that the President is calling “the media” an enemy of the people. Furthermore, if one considers that all that is necessary to become FAKE NEWS is to break an element in the President’s internal definition of Good Media, run a story that is counter to the President’s interests for example, then the journalist at least, if not their publication, becomes a purveyor of FAKE NEWS. That is dangerous; who believed anything published by Soviet TASS?

    Note: I am not defending the hole the mainstream media has dug for themselves over the last several decades by allowing themselves to become asymmetrically biased left. The asymmetry grew through Carter to Bush43, before finally becoming obscene at times during the Obama administration. That said, as a human institution, it is foolish to expect an unbiased media. The “media” encompasses not only the reporting of what is best understood as the facts at the time of reporting, but also opinions, and as such an unbiased media is undesirable. Errors are unavoidable, but should not go uncorrected. What is desirable is a reasonably symmetrical distribution of biases in the mainstream media so that for any given ideology in power at any given time, there is a representative opposition and support in the media. Such a view is somewhat idealistic, but ideal worth working toward nonetheless.

    As someone who has been put off by, then disgusted, with the mainstream media’s liberal asymmetry since taking AP Government in high school, I have been encouraged some that some in the mainstream media have recognized this failing, and are advocating becoming more symmetrical. I hope so, though there is much institutional and ideological inertia to be overcome. Time will tell.

    In the meantime, we do nothing to help matters if we allow media we don’t like, media we don’t believe, to face retribution for unfavorable or untrue reporting by the government. That is specifically what the first amendment forbad. We barely escaped the establishment of the very restrictive old English interpretation of the freedom of speech thanks to Jefferson, who while personally abhorring the abundant and malicious lies of the Federalist media, did not renew the 1798 Sedition Act upon becoming president, and to his pain established the understanding of freedom of speech / press that would prevail into the present. (http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-alien-and-sedition-acts.html)

    A closing thought: The President is coming uncomfortably close to functionally reproducing the Sedition Act when the opening of libel laws is understood as his goal. The GOP/conservatives are in power presently, what power and precedents do we want the next administration to inherit? What kind of a government do we want our children to live under?

    Jacob

    Like

    • My dear Jacob, I fear that there may be no one out here that would sit still to read all of that. At least I won’t. Far too long. Far too dense.

      Please allow me to quote you a little from a previous post of mine called “On Writing“, which you might enjoy:

      Let me recommend to you a few practical exercises to give your writing more power. First is the “elevator speech”. Imagine you get on an elevator with President Trump, and you have the length of the elevator ride up Trump Tower to convince him of your argument about AntiFa. What would you say? What are your most essential concepts? How would you boil your long and complex post into a minute or so?

      Next is the “matchbook speech”. This is a statement of your basic ideas such that you can write them on the inside of a matchbook cover … the bare essence, the skeleton of your argument.

      Once you have boiled your basic ideas down to their essence, then you want to build it back up again. Throw away your first draft if necessary, and flesh out the elegant, clean, spare argument of your elevator speech.

      I suspect that you have good ideas in your seven miles of prose above. Let me invite you to use the elevator speech and the matchbook speech to boil down your ideas.

      Finally, you need to focus on what I said. I’m discussing the tweet that set off the current firestorm. It was not any of the tweets you quoted. It was the tweet that I highlighted that set the news media hair on fire, because that was the first time he said the fake news media was the enemy of the people.

      This is the claim that morphed into the big lie, that Trump supposedly said the MEDIA was the enemy of the people.

      That is not true. That is the big lie. Trump said no such thing, no matter how many tweets you cite.

      Anyhow, I encourage you to boil your ideas down by a factor of about twenty to one and give it another shot, I’m interested to see the result.

      All the best,

      w.

      Like

    • Jacob,

      While I can see where your interpretation of what Trump said is coming from, I think you are trying too hard.
      I agree with Trump that it is totally unfair and unjust for Media outlets to spread things that are demonstrably false as true news (as opposed to opinion). And that media should be held to account where they push an agenda by ignoring or omitting known facts, misquoting, and generally presenting another persons’ opinion or motives, like they know what it is. This would seem to include your own post about Trump.

      Isn’t it much simpler to see it as:
      * Trump knows the media has outright lied and misrepresented things because they have lied about and misrepresented him.
      * Trump has stated that they should not be able to do such things.
      * Trump welcomes honest criticism (it’s the only way you know how to improve), just so long as it is honest, and some sources have proved so dishonest they have no value to him.

      I think you will find a straight forward reading of the things he has said matched my summary without needing to pull together so many different threads from different cloths. Nowhere did Trump state that the media should not be allowed to speak to power, and I (and probably everyone else on this blog) would oppose the changes if he tried.

      Like

  10. Methinks they do protest to much.

    Sounds to me like the MSM have a guilty conscience to have reinterpreted what he said to imply all the news organizations.

    Like

  11. I understand 🙂

    It was indeed quite long, and your advice is excellent. Content wise I struggled with providing the context and source material drawn from larger bodies of material to illustrate the claim I was presenting. Really, what I needed was my own blog reply.

    Elevator Speech: Yes, the media trimmed FAKE off of the President’s quote. At face value this would seem a manipulation of the President’s plain meaning, but once one becomes familiar with the President’s internal definition of FAKE through his own previous statements, it becomes clear that the media was justified in their omission in order to preserve the common English meaning of what the President was expressing.

    (If on a longer elevator ride)

    It is naïve not to consider a speaker’s history, particularly one who is in, or seeking, a position of influence. From what I can discern the President has used semantic manipulation, changing the definition of FAKE from meaning factually untrue to meaning not serving his interests.

    To admit this is not to absolve the media of their past sins (which are substantial in number), but rather to recognize truth even when it is uttered from a flawed source.

    (If someone pressed every damned button on on your trip to the top floor)

    Consider before you go, just last night (0508z 01Mar17), the President’s Press Secretary tweeted: “In @cnn poll 78% of @POTUS #JointAddress  watchers say positive, 69% say policies will move country in right direction, 69% more optimistic”

    …in light of the President’s (personal) tweet from 06Feb17: “Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.”

    Hope that helps,

    Jacob

    Like

    • daddyklee March 1, 2017 at 8:40 am

      Thanks kindly for your much reduced comment. However, it is much scarier in its new form.

      I understand 🙂

      It was indeed quite long, and your advice is excellent. Content wise I struggled with providing the context and source material drawn from larger bodies of material to illustrate the claim I was presenting. Really, what I needed was my own blog reply.

      Elevator Speech: Yes, the media trimmed FAKE off of the President’s quote. At face value this would seem a manipulation of the President’s plain meaning, but once one becomes familiar with the President’s internal definition of FAKE through his own previous statements, it becomes clear that the media was justified in their omission in order to preserve the common English meaning of what the President was expressing.

      Wait, wait. You say that “at face value” the media is manipulating his speech. Which is obvious, because they are manipulating it.

      Then you decide, based on other things he said, that the manipulation is justified.

      I gotta say, if you ever try that bullshit on me, “manipulating” my words because you think you understand my “internal definition” of something, I will rip you a new fundamental orifice. You are NOT invited to change my words based on your own misunderstandings, and the same thing is true of the media and the President.

      I don’t care if you or they are experts on his “internal definition’, that does not give you or them the right to misquote him. That is LYING about what he said, no matter his internal definition. Plus which, you don’t have a clue about his or my “internal definition” of words. That is nonsense unless you can read minds.

      Gotta say, amigo … I liked you a lot better when I misunderstood you. You are willing to JUSTIFY LYING ABOUT WHAT A MAN SAID just because you think your or someone else can peer into his brain and determine his “internal definitions”???

      That is sick, bro’ … sick.

      w.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Jacob after all that you missed altogether.

    Walter Cronkite, I have to disagree there. I would say he was the first fake news journalist with his misinformation regards to Viet Nam war especially the Tet Offensive.

    Like

    • Thanks, nc. I picked him because of the famous comment about the war … “when you’ve lost Walter Cronkhite, you’ve lost the US people” …

      Yes, he was taken in at the beginning like everyone else. But he was the first well-known journalist to speak out against the fake news of the war … which is why I said we need him now.

      w.

      Like

  13. ….The Usual Request: When you comment, please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS you are discussing, so we can all be clear about your subject…

    Ah, Mr Eschenbach! If we do that we can’t really have a political discussion.

    Politicians are masters of the skill of saying one thing while implying another. And opposition politicians are similar masters at twisting the first set of words to mean a third thing, then accusing their opponents of a fourth thing that no one has ever though about saying…

    The Media then turn up looking for an exclusive story that will fit their reader’s preconceptions, or their Editor’s prejudices, and proceed to cherry-pick like vultures at the heap of garbage in front of them until they can assemble a fabrication which will hang together for the few hours it is waved in front of the public’s noses.

    Then everything is forgotten, and the whole sorry saga repeats itself, only in a different direction.

    The public, I think, are well aware of this. So they ignore it all. And, more and more, they ignore government directions, and ‘scientific’ findings….

    And you want us to quote the exact words we wish to have a discussion about?

    Like

  14. Dodgy Geezer March 1, 2017 at 10:45 am

    ….The Usual Request: When you comment, please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS you are discussing, so we can all be clear about your subject…

    Ah, Mr Eschenbach! If we do that we can’t really have a political discussion.

    Politicians are masters of the skill of saying one thing while implying another. And opposition politicians are similar masters at twisting the first set of words to mean a third thing, then accusing their opponents of a fourth thing that no one has ever though about saying…

    The Media then turn up looking for an exclusive story that will fit their reader’s preconceptions, or their Editor’s prejudices, and proceed to cherry-pick like vultures at the heap of garbage in front of them until they can assemble a fabrication which will hang together for the few hours it is waved in front of the public’s noses.

    Thanks, Dodgy, but the fact that there are a whole host of folks out there babbling about vague, half-defined concepts does NOT mean that you and I have to follow their asinine lead.

    And YES, we can discuss politics and quote exactly what our political opponents say. Why would we not be able to “really have a political discussion” and do that? I quote what you said about this interaction … why would that be different for politics?

    w.

    Like

    • Come on Willis, you brought up the subject, knowing full well fire would be coming from all directions.
      Don’t get mad at us, we just need the fire direction arrow.

      Like

      • Thanks, UK. I’m not mad. I was responding to asybot’s claim that if we quote what an opponent says we can’t have a political discussion. I don’t think that’s true.

        And I know that fire comes from all directions. I’m willing to defend my own words … but I cannot defend someone’s interpretation of unknown words of mine.

        w.

        Like

    • …Thanks, Dodgy, but the fact that there are a whole host of folks out there babbling about vague, half-defined concepts does NOT mean that you and I have to follow their asinine lead.

      And YES, we can discuss politics and quote exactly what our political opponents say. Why would we not be able to “really have a political discussion” and do that? I quote what you said about this interaction … why would that be different for politics?…

      I am probably being too clever for my own good!

      Here, I am using the words ‘political discussion’ to mean a different thing from ‘discussion about politics’. The word ‘political’ is being used as a polyseme; the ‘discussion’ could be both ‘about’, and ‘in’ the political style. Perhaps the conceit is the third of those described in Sir W Empson’s classic text on Ambiguity?

      What I was trying to get at was that ‘talking politically’ was a particular skill (much prized in Mediaeval scholasticism) where WINNING was the aim, NOT arriving at the truth (if that were ever to be possible). You have seen the sort of thing I mean on all the forums – there is a nice little essay by Schopenhauer that I like to refer to occasionally – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Right .

      I find that when two sensible people meet for a discussion – a great rarity in these times – any disagreement can usually be put down to differences in interpretation of word meanings. But most forum discussions are not even ‘babbling about vague, half-defined concepts’ – they are closer to exchanging insults over a garden wall with a pack of supporters egging each competitor on…

      Like

  15. Just my opinion on this and other blogs from all sides: The divisions are becoming deeper. That is what sad. If we cannot have a dialog based on facts were are in deeper trouble than we realize.

    Like

    • Agreed.

      It has been tremendously disheartening trying to have reasoned discussions, over the last couple months (prior I was uninvolved). Just like a cult of personality blinded many on the left to some serious issues with Obama and his admin, so many Trump supporters are likewise blinded.

      Personally, in my earlier posts, I had hoped that I could at least open the door to the understanding that in the context of an expanded view of Trump’s communications (because context matters), the word FAKE, the key of word under dispute, was not being used by Trump in it’s natural sense, and thus justifying the media’s subesequent claims. The evidence for that is hardly difficult or controversial. I knew Willis from his years or earlier writings to be a man of truth and research, and thought he at least would understand, not to abandon Trump, but to relax the criticism of the media in this instance. I was wrong and my lesson has been painfully learned.

      We are indeed in very, very deep trouble.

      Jacob

      Like

      • daddyklee March 2, 2017 at 9:47 am

        Personally, in my earlier posts, I had hoped that I could at least open the door to the understanding that in the context of an expanded view of Trump’s communications (because context matters), the word FAKE, the key of word under dispute, was not being used by Trump in it’s natural sense, and thus justifying the media’s subesequent claims.

        You did nothing of the sort. You did not open doors. Instead, you flat-out LIED about what Trump said, repeating the same lie the media has been putting forwards. How is lying about what someone said supposed to open doors?

        You falsely claimed, just like the media falsely claimed, that Trump said that the MEDIA was the problem. He did not say that. I know you and the media don’t like it, but he said that the FAKE NEWS media was the problem. Not only that, but he specified exactly who he was talking about. Doesn’t matter to you, though. You know the inner working of his mind, according to you. This is you, justifying the media lying about what the President said:

        Elevator Speech: Yes, the media trimmed FAKE off of the President’s quote. At face value this would seem a manipulation of the President’s plain meaning, but once one becomes familiar with the President’s internal definition of FAKE through his own previous statements, it becomes clear that the media was justified in their omission in order to preserve the common English meaning of what the President was expressing.

        So no, daddyklee, you do NOT get to pretend to be the adult in the room when you are lying about what someone said. You do NOT get to claim that you are opening doors when you are closing them.You do not get to decide that the “common English meaning” of FAKE news media is somehow magically transmuted into “news media” so you can leave “FAKE” off of his quote. That is NOT the common meaning of fake news media. It means just what it says.

        Plus which, a man says what he says. You seem to think you are qualified to LIE ABOUT WHAT HE SAID based on your superior understanding … bad news, amigo. You don’t get to stuff words in someones mouth just because you don’t like what he ACTUALLY SAID. You and the media do NOT get to pretend he said something else that fits your theories of how the world works.

        Now, if you do want to have a discussion, I’m the man to do it. I love to have discussions and passionate disagreements about these matters.

        But I won’t abide a liar … and a liar like you who claims to be “opening doors” is off into fantasyland.

        w.

        Like

      • Jacob,

        Have you considered, that the reason Trump only labels things related to him as FAKE, is not that it is his (re)definition of the word, but that his own context is the only one in which he can declare things fake or not?

        Like

  16. There is ample support for my claims in the documentation I provided (in my initial gargantuan post), all drawn from the unadulterated content of what the President has stated. If these facts are insufficient, nothing further I can say will be effectual either.

    I will close my time here with a few quotes from a NationalReview article I ran across this morning, followed by the link to the article.

    “the Trump administration’s repeated critiques of particular outlets or stories often appear to be motivated by a distaste for certain depictions of the president or his policies rather than by substantive, factual disputes.”

    And…

    “Of course, it is wrong for Trump to classify as “fake” any information he happens to dislike. Rather than call him a fascist, though, the press should use facts to explain why his assertions are incorrect.” — Which is what I sought to do regarding that very matter.

    And while off the immediate topic, I include because it can’t be said enough:

    “members of the media can’t produce as much sloppy work as they did during the last election cycle and then get upset when they lose credibility in the eyes of the public. The press enjoys the same constitutional protection that all free speakers do, but it squanders its valuable opportunity to check the executive branch — and the rest of the government — when it chooses not to exercise that influence prudently and correctly.” — This x 1000

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445375/press-freedom-media-trump-first-amendment-reporting-standards

    Jacob

    Like

    • Jacob, you say:

      There is ample support for my claims in the documentation I provided (in my initial gargantuan post)

      You say that there is “support for your claims” … so what? Doesn’t make it OK to lie.

      My objection was that you say it is OK for the media to flat-out LIE about what Trump said, by falsely claiming that he said the news media were the enemy of the American people.

      He never said that, despite both you and the media lying about it. He did NOT say the news media were the enemy of the people. That is a lie, one which you have repeated. He objected to the FAKE NEWS media, and he identified specifically which ones he was talking about.

      It appears you think there is justification for those lies in your “documentation”.

      I say there is no justification for lying about what the President actually said, that it is stuffing words in his mouth, and it is a reprehensible act NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO JUSTIFY IT.

      Finally, your attitude, that it is OK to lie about what he said, is the very reason that Trump called the FAKE NEWS MEDIA the enemy of the people. When you lie about what the President said, AS YOU ARE JUSTIFYING THE MEDIA DOING, you are indeed an enemy of the people.

      w.

      Like

  17. Maybe I’m a fool but, I’ll try once more, mainly out of the respect that I had for you than what I have seen in relation to this post.

    1. Definition of “fake”: one that is not what it purports to be. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake)
    2. In literal English, “fake news media” would be news source that purports to be a purveyor of accurate information but in fact provides predominantly false information.
    3. The functional definition of “fake”, in relation to “news” in the President’s parlance is that which does not serve his interests. This functional definition is so firmly established in the President’s various utterances on the mater as to be indisputable.
    4. Media providing information that is *predominantly false* is distinctly different than their providing information that is *predominantly counter to the President’s interests*.
    5. The President has made clear that factual accuracy is important to him only so far as it intersects with his interests, once again revealing the primacy of his interests in his usage of “fake news”.

    Given the above, anyone reporting on the President’s tweet faces some challenges in communicating effectively with their audience. The media citing the President’s tweet had a choice to a) fully quote and let the atypical usage of “FAKE” go unaddressed, b) fully quote and then address the atypical usage of “FAKE” as the communicator sees fit, or c) selectively quote the tweet in order to more closely convey what the President was communicating without having to take to space to address the differing definitions. Personally, I would argue for b), while finding c) acceptable if pressed for space/time. Option a) is dangerous in that the average recipient (one who has not familiarized themselves with the President’s use of language) will get a different meaning, a false meaning, of what the President communicated to to world that was actually given.

    Having said the above, I went to find an example of an article that did not quote the President’s tweet fully. Surprisingly, all the articles I have run across that were contemporary with the tweet (which I claim in no way to represent the full body of what was published at the time), including those from the media sources directly mentioned in the corrected tweet, did in fact fully quote the President, with their headlines summarizing the President’s message, rather than quoting it. This strengthen my point all the more. The headlines summarized the message the President’s tweet was communicating, while the body text quoted the tweet in full and typically addressed the intent message through the remainder of the text.

    You say “I say there is no justification for lying about what the President actually said, that it is stuffing words in his mouth, and it is a reprehensible act NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO JUSTIFY IT.”

    Nobody lied. The whole premise we have been working under crumbling as I researched the actual articles written in the day following the tweet. That is on me as I was as I afforded you a level of trust that I don’t regularly grant the media or our polititions. Can you cite examples of the media, particularly the mainstream media, that did not report according to option a) or b) listed above? Headlines are not quotes but summaries, which in this instance were accurate summaries – the President views the mainstream media that does not serve his interests as not his enemy, but that of the American people, or more simply for a headline: “Trump calls media ‘enemy of the American people’”. Secondly, I did not lie. I extensively quoted the president on the matter, and then summarized it.

    Regarding stuffing words in the President’s mouth: context. A basic element of reading comprehension is understanding words not only in their literal sense, but also how an individual or group is using them. I listed in my first post examples of the associations the President made with “fake news”, drawing from his own words. Taken all together I only put in the President’s mouth what had already come out, albeit in a distilled form.

    What more can be said? Only That while you may not like the truth, don’t conflate your aversion to a truth with it being a lie.

    Jacob

    Below, please note representative articles from 17-18Feb17 containing “enemy of the American people”. Note the irony of headlines of Breitbart’s headline and that of the New York Times: “Trump calls media ‘enemy of the American people’” vs “Trump Calls the News Media the ‘Enemy of the American People’”

    http://wgntv.com/2017/02/17/trump-calls-media-enemy-of-the-american-people/

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/trump-declares-media-enemy-american-people-170218044918267.html

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-18/donald-trump-called-the-media-the-enemy-of-the-american-people/8282760

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/02/18/trump_calling_media_enemy_of_the_american_people_reminiscent_of_stalin_mao.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/17/opinions/trump-wants-you-to-hate-media-ghitis/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/17/trump-calls-the-media-the-enemy-of-the-american-people/?utm_term=.b3d3ab48362e

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-chief-of-staff-says-take-trump-seriously-press-is-the-enemy/

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/sen-mccain-meet-press-defends-free-press-after-trump-tweet-n722831

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-donald-trump-called-fake-news-media-1487377442-htmlstory.html

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/trump-calls-media-enemy-of-the-american-people/

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    • your analysis falls apart as you hit #3 ans say it’s indisputable.

      Trump does not all anyone who disagrees with him fake news. He has in fact pointed to some shows (in particular a couple on Fox) that disagree with him on some topic that he does not consider “fake news”

      And if you can’t find any examples of ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN presenting utterly fake stories while claiming they are utterly true, you are so blind that it’s not worth talking to you.

      Like

    • daddyklee March 3, 2017 at 3:28 pm Edit

      Maybe I’m a fool but, I’ll try once more, mainly out of the respect that I had for you than what I have seen in relation to this post.

      1. Definition of “fake”: one that is not what it purports to be. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake)
      2. In literal English, “fake news media” would be news source that purports to be a purveyor of accurate information but in fact provides predominantly false information.
      3. The functional definition of “fake”, in relation to “news” in the President’s parlance is that which does not serve his interests. This functional definition is so firmly established in the President’s various utterances on the mater as to be indisputable.

      Whenever someone claims that something is “indisputable”, the translated meaning is that they don’t have a scrap of evidence. That is certainly the case here. What the President calls “fake news” are things like the claim that he removed the bust of Martin Luther King from the oval office, or the claim that he cavorted in a bed with prostitutes pissing on him in Moscow, or the claim that the campaign debates were honestly staged when CNN was secretly providing answers to Hillary.

      Now, those claims were total BS … in other words, “fake news”. Why? Well, NOT for the “indisputable” reason you claimed, that the President didn’t like them. He called the articles “fake news” because they were literally that—fake. Your claim, that fake = disliked by Trump, is nonsense.

      4. Media providing information that is *predominantly false* is distinctly different than their providing information that is *predominantly counter to the President’s interests*.

      Indeed. The first is called “fake news media” by Trump, and the second is called “media printing news I don’t like” by the President.

      5. The President has made clear that factual accuracy is important to him only so far as it intersects with his interests, once again revealing the primacy of his interests in his usage of “fake news”.

      While it is certainly possible that that is true, it is clearly true that the fake news media has made it clear that factual accuracy is important to them only so far as it intersects with their interests. Perhaps you could comment on that as well.

      … You say “I say there is no justification for lying about what the President actually said, that it is stuffing words in his mouth, and it is a reprehensible act NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO JUSTIFY IT.”

      Nobody lied. The whole premise we have been working under crumbling as I researched the actual articles written in the day following the tweet.

      The President called the “fake news media”, which he specifically identified as the New York Times, ABC, NBC, and a few others, “enemies of the people”. You could put an accurate headline out there that “PRESIDENT SAYS FIVE NEWS MEDIA ARE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE”, or that “PRESIDENT SAYS THAT FAKE NEWS MEDIA ARE THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE”.

      But if you put a news headline out there which you support, “PRESIDENT SAYS NEWS MEDIA ARE THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE” and you leave out the word “FAKE”, you are flat-out lying about what the President said. I don’t care about your pathetic excuses for the lie, that he uses a word in some way you don’t approve of. SO WHAT? Who cares what you think, the headline is supposed to reflect what the President said, not what you think. The fact that he uses unusual words does NOT mean you can just claim he said something with a totally different meaning.

      That is on me as I was as I afforded you a level of trust that I don’t regularly grant the media or our polititions. Can you cite examples of the media, particularly the mainstream media, that did not report according to option a) or b) listed above? Headlines are not quotes but summaries, which in this instance were accurate summaries – the President views the mainstream media that does not serve his interests as not his enemy, but that of the American people, or more simply for a headline: “Trump calls media ‘enemy of the American people’”. Secondly, I did not lie. I extensively quoted the president on the matter, and then summarized it.

      The headline “Trump calls media ‘enemy of the American people’” is not an “accurate summary”, it is a LIE. He never said that, and you are twisting his words to make it falsely appear that he did accused all of the media. He did not do that.

      You don’t seem to get it. If I say “Yugo cars are dangerous” and you leave out “Yugo” in your headline and claim I said “Cars are dangerous”, you are LYING about what I said. That is not “summarizing” what I said, it is distorting it out of reason.

      Similarly, when Trump says “fake news media are the enemy”, and you leave “fake” out of the headline and claim he said “news media are the enemy”, you are LYING about what he said. That is not “summarizing” what the President said, it is distorting it out of reason. … and in a hugely ironic twist, the headlines claiming that he said “news media are the enemy” are in themselves a brand new example of fake news, an untrue report about what the President said, and thus proving the President’s point quite neatly.

      Q.E.D.

      As to your question about who is doing that, most everyone that you listed below.

      Regarding stuffing words in the President’s mouth: context. A basic element of reading comprehension is understanding words not only in their literal sense, but also how an individual or group is using them. I listed in my first post examples of the associations the President made with “fake news”, drawing from his own words. Taken all together I only put in the President’s mouth what had already come out, albeit in a distilled form.

      If you try “distilling” my words and claiming I said them, I will (symbolically of course) slap you silly for your trouble. You do NOT get to “distill” someone’s words and then pretend they said them. When Trump says “fake news media are the enemy”, that does NOT distill down to “media are the enemy”.

      You may call that “distilling” what they said, but the rest of the world calls it LYING ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE SAID.

      What more can be said? Only That while you may not like the truth, don’t conflate your aversion to a truth with it being a lie.

      The truth? Like the man said, “You can’t handle the truth”. Worse than that, you wouldn’t recognize the truth if it hit you in the albondigas, because you’re too busy “distilling” peoples clear statements into something totally different, so that you can lie about what they said and then claim they were wrong to say it.

      Not my style, amigo … I just do my best to quote exactly what people said, because exactness is the only honest way to deal with a man’s words and claims. And that is precisely why I ask people to QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS THEY DISAGREE WITH … because I’ve had far too many lowlifes try to “distill” my words like you’re doing and then use their “distillation” to abuse me for something I never said.

      I don’t stand for that, I call it by its true name, whether it’s done to me, to you, or to the president.

      Best regards, and thanks for the comments. I disagree with them but will defend your right to say whatever you wish. Being able to speak freely about our different ideas, that’s why our system works.

      w.

      Like

      • “The headline “Trump calls media ‘enemy of the American people’” is not an “accurate summary”, it is a LIE. He never said that, and you are twisting his words to make it falsely appear that he did accused all of the media. He did not do that.”

        And

        “Similarly, when Trump says “fake news media are the enemy”, and you leave “fake” out of the headline and claim he said “news media are the enemy”, you are LYING about what he said. That is not “summarizing” what the President said, it is distorting it out of reason. … and in a hugely ironic twist, the headlines claiming that he said “news media are the enemy” are in themselves a brand new example of fake news, an untrue report about what the President said, and thus proving the President’s point quite neatly.”

        http://www.breitbart.com/news/trump-calls-media-enemy-of-the-american-people/
        Which is clearly not considered “FAKE NEWS”

        To reiterate, to the President “FAKE NEWS” is not factually incorrect news, nor simply news the President does not like. Instead, as I illustrated in my first post, it is that media which does not consistently praise the President, does not recount his accomplishments, are not on his side, are not ideologically like minded, do not strengthen his valuation of himself, and do not help him accomplish his goals (including covering for him); or more simply, they do not serve his interests.

        This discussion has sadly illustrated for me how powerful a Cult of Personality can be on even very intelligent individuals.

        Jacob

        Like

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